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When to use a condensing boiler

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Language: en

00:00:00.030
so condensing boilers and non-condensing
00:00:03.260 00:00:03.270 boilers there anything magical about a
00:00:05.450 00:00:05.460 condensing boiler that makes it more
00:00:06.889 00:00:06.899 efficient than a non condensing boiler
00:00:10.690 00:00:10.700 no responses great that that's an
00:00:14.209 00:00:14.219 interested sub that's right he's got it
00:00:19.519 00:00:19.529 so a non condensing boiler will convince
00:00:21.769 00:00:21.779 no problem and as long as you put a cool
00:00:25.009 00:00:25.019 relatively cool water and the numbers
00:00:26.839 00:00:26.849 about 130 degrees depending on humidity
00:00:29.450 00:00:29.460 and barometric pressure and things your
00:00:30.769 00:00:30.779 dewpoint and you can condense all day on
00:00:33.470 00:00:33.480 a non condensing boiler for about a day
00:00:36.319 00:00:36.329 and then will eat itself up so a
00:00:38.330 00:00:38.340 condensing boiler is designed to
00:00:39.740 00:00:39.750 withstand that condensate and we'll get
00:00:42.440 00:00:42.450 into details on to why that condensate
00:00:44.660 00:00:44.670 can destroy a boiler
00:00:47.660 00:00:47.670 the idea is you select your condensing
00:00:51.650 00:00:51.660 boiler when your water temperatures
00:00:53.840 00:00:53.850 warrants it if you're going to send 130
00:00:58.220 00:00:58.230 degree water out to your building choose
00:01:00.470 00:01:00.480 a condensing boiler if the water is
00:01:02.330 00:01:02.340 going to come back to the boiler less
00:01:03.709 00:01:03.719 than 130 degrees
00:01:05.179 00:01:05.189 choose a condensing boiler and I'm not
00:01:07.370 00:01:07.380 talking about just startup I'm not
00:01:08.870 00:01:08.880 talking about cold startup where yeah
00:01:10.490 00:01:10.500 ambient temperature may be 65 degrees
00:01:12.740 00:01:12.750 and the water is going to heat up to 180
00:01:15.140 00:01:15.150 degrees and then operate at 180 coming
00:01:18.140 00:01:18.150 back at 160 that's not really a
00:01:19.940 00:01:19.950 condensing boiler application won't gain
00:01:22.280 00:01:22.290 efficiency points you'll just spend a
00:01:23.780 00:01:23.790 lot more money for your boiler so the
00:01:26.840 00:01:26.850 idea is your water temperatures
00:01:28.219 00:01:28.229 determine whether you should use a
00:01:29.420 00:01:29.430 condensing boiler or not we'll talk
00:01:32.569 00:01:32.579 about outdoor reset where your water
00:01:34.429 00:01:34.439 temperature is actually change you might
00:01:36.050 00:01:36.060 design on your coldest day 180 160 and
00:01:38.270 00:01:38.280 on your warmer days you might be able to
00:01:40.490 00:01:40.500 use 110 degree water to heat your
00:01:42.140 00:01:42.150 building you can save energy and utilize
00:01:44.359 00:01:44.369 the efficiency points from a condensing
00:01:45.950 00:01:45.960 boiler but I do have a slide on that
00:01:47.330 00:01:47.340 later I just answered this question
00:01:50.770 00:01:50.780 right I answered this question already
00:01:54.440 00:01:54.450 it's similar to the condensate on that
00:01:56.630 00:01:56.640 glass it has to do a dew point in
00:01:58.160 00:01:58.170 temperature it's physics it's not magic
00:02:00.950 00:02:00.960 or a trade secret on why a boiler
00:02:03.649 00:02:03.659 condenses where does all the water come
00:02:06.679 00:02:06.689 from comes from the natural gas the
00:02:09.139 00:02:09.149 reaction for natural gas is mostly
00:02:11.930 00:02:11.940 methane so that's why I'm showing
00:02:13.700 00:02:13.710 methane in my formula here and if we
00:02:15.950 00:02:15.960 take methane and complete our fire
00:02:18.830 00:02:18.840 triangle with oxygen and the heat we can
00:02:22.160 00:02:22.170 yield under exothermic reactions carbon
00:02:25.040 00:02:25.050 dioxide water and energy expressed here
00:02:30.260 00:02:30.270 in kilojoules so where does this water
00:02:33.590 00:02:33.600 go well generally it goes out the stack
00:02:36.650 00:02:36.660 on many boilers up till the last decade
00:02:40.730 00:02:40.740 or so
00:02:41.090 00:02:41.100 we designed our boilers in our flue
00:02:44.060 00:02:44.070 system to extend 17% of the heat
00:02:47.600 00:02:47.610 regenerates output stack to give us the
00:02:51.650 00:02:51.660 lift in order to vent our flue products
00:02:55.280 00:02:55.290 safely from the building well it's a
00:02:59.090 00:02:59.100 ridiculous waste of heat when we don't
00:03:00.920 00:03:00.930 need to waste all that heat just for our
00:03:02.780 00:03:02.790 stack effect so now we've added blowers
00:03:05.300 00:03:05.310 to our brailers I get those words like
00:03:08.150 00:03:08.160 the boiler to our blower tongue to
00:03:10.610 00:03:10.620 humble bit of a temperature we add
00:03:12.560 00:03:12.570 dwellers to our boiler to force the flue
00:03:14.570 00:03:14.580 products out without relying on that
00:03:16.220 00:03:16.230 energy from the buoyancy of the gases or
00:03:19.070 00:03:19.080 hot air baloon effect and we can put
00:03:22.610 00:03:22.620 that heat into our system and that's why
00:03:25.070 00:03:25.080 we can get more efficiency out of our
00:03:27.380 00:03:27.390 boilers in the last decade or two so
00:03:30.620 00:03:30.630 I've mentioned 130 degree number that's
00:03:32.510 00:03:32.520 kind of a number where we begin to form
00:03:34.400 00:03:34.410 condensate and our boiler operation this
00:03:36.500 00:03:36.510 is the temperature returning to the
00:03:38.900 00:03:38.910 boiler so you could think of it as
00:03:41.470 00:03:41.480 return from the building supply to the
00:03:44.210 00:03:44.220 boiler if it drops below about 130
00:03:46.460 00:03:46.470 degrees
00:03:47.000 00:03:47.010 condensation that's about when it starts
00:03:49.580 00:03:49.590 to form and rain inside the boiler you
00:03:51.620 00:03:51.630 may have heard that term before and the
00:03:53.570 00:03:53.580 condensate is corrosive when you are
00:03:57.320 00:03:57.330 changing phases we can take advantage of
00:04:00.110 00:04:00.120 what's called latent heat of
00:04:01.070 00:04:01.080 vaporization and you can extract a lot
00:04:04.490 00:04:04.500 of energy when you condense that steam
00:04:06.260 00:04:06.270 or the gas it's a water vapor if we
00:04:09.260 00:04:09.270 condense that to water we think that
00:04:10.820 00:04:10.830 gives us that's going to give us heat
00:04:12.230 00:04:12.240 energy that gives us energy back it's
00:04:14.810 00:04:14.820 changing phases from steam to water
00:04:17.120 00:04:17.130 that's why a boiler that condenses can
00:04:19.520 00:04:19.530 be more efficient
00:04:22.260 00:04:22.270 we hear the terms dojin value and
00:04:25.939 00:04:25.949 utilize natural gas the difference keep
00:04:37.800 00:04:37.810 this guy keep that guy happy
00:04:40.370 00:04:40.380 hey but get your own show all right
00:04:45.779 00:04:45.789 because this is my show no no interject
00:04:49.830 00:04:49.840 as at-will every please give and and we
00:04:53.070 00:04:53.080 we had a good conversation about a
00:04:56.360 00:04:56.370 greater terminal temperature difference
00:04:58.469 00:04:58.479 and lesser terminal temperature
00:04:59.730 00:04:59.740 difference well you asked me last last
00:05:01.320 00:05:01.330 time I was here and it ended up we how
00:05:03.870 00:05:03.880 do you decide that and that went really
00:05:05.279 00:05:05.289 well that's on video by the way
00:05:06.540 00:05:06.550 I'm doing a YouTube channel so you can
00:05:08.040 00:05:08.050 check this out later and you'd even go
00:05:09.570 00:05:09.580 back to the heat exchanger presentation
00:05:10.920 00:05:10.930 that I gave couple months ago when we're
00:05:14.310 00:05:14.320 burning a million BTUs of gas we can
00:05:18.060 00:05:18.070 yield 95 pounds of water there's quite a
00:05:21.719 00:05:21.729 lot of moisture in that process I've
00:05:24.360 00:05:24.370 answered this too is a condensing boiler
00:05:26.490 00:05:26.500 more efficient yes if you're operating
00:05:28.920 00:05:28.930 and condensing mode yes a little bit if
00:05:32.159 00:05:32.169 you're not but it's that's not you're
00:05:34.860 00:05:34.870 not going to get your return on
00:05:35.580 00:05:35.590 investment
00:05:36.180 00:05:36.190 if you don't condense the condensing
00:05:37.589 00:05:37.599 boiler that's the whole point they do
00:05:39.060 00:05:39.070 cost more money
00:05:42.170 00:05:42.180 condensate ends up with a pH of about
00:05:44.730 00:05:44.740 between 3 & 4
00:05:46.379 00:05:46.389 I guess I forgot to put my units on the
00:05:49.379 00:05:49.389 pH no there's no units for pH so that
00:05:52.800 00:05:52.810 was a trick question
00:05:53.430 00:05:53.440 wasn't even a question it's carbonic
00:05:56.820 00:05:56.830 acid mostly there's sulfur in natural
00:05:59.850 00:05:59.860 gas but traces amount so you get a
00:06:01.439 00:06:01.449 little sulfuric acid but the main
00:06:02.909 00:06:02.919 component of condensate it's carbonic
00:06:05.070 00:06:05.080 acid like I said that pH here here's a
00:06:08.460 00:06:08.470 case where there's a steel cover over
00:06:10.710 00:06:10.720 this drain and it's corroded away
00:06:12.240 00:06:12.250 because of condensate so we have to
00:06:15.480 00:06:15.490 handle we have to deal with that
00:06:16.620 00:06:16.630 condensate a non condensing boiler
00:06:18.060 00:06:18.070 that's condensing is copper tube or
00:06:20.399 00:06:20.409 steel and that carbonic acid will eat
00:06:24.060 00:06:24.070 away or eat into the materials of
00:06:26.640 00:06:26.650 construction of that boiler and that's
00:06:29.399 00:06:29.409 why if you're going to condense you need
00:06:30.750 00:06:30.760 the condensing boiler because they're
00:06:31.830 00:06:31.840 made of materials that withstand this
00:06:33.269 00:06:33.279 carbonic acid corrode

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